Say Hello to the grand new season with a brand new episode featuring Richard Harris — The Salesforce's Sales Leader to Follow for 2021 and 2022 and a 5-time AAiSP Top Sales Leader. Richard teaches revenue teams how to earn the right to ask questions and which ones to ask when.
Here are some key takeaways:
⁍ Importance of personal branding
⁍ How is each salesperson a brand in themselves?
⁍ Making prospects fall in trust with you
⁍ Respect contract (respect for your prospects’ time, being able to point them in the right direction, even if it’s somewhere else)
⁍ The importance of forecasting and setting realistic goals
⁍ Get rid of ‘maybes’ in the pipeline. Go only after leads that’ll contribute to revenue. Less pressure and more focus on quality leads
⁍ Align goals from the top-down
⁍ Understand tools like CRM, LinkedIn, Sales Navigator, Grammarly
⁍ Best sales podcasts to follow
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Follow Richard Harris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rharris415/
Enroll for his course: https://theharrisconsultinggroup.com/neat-selling/
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Subscribe to "Limitless - A Sales and Marketing Podcast" for your daily learnings in sales and marketing.
File name: Richard Harris
Duration: 30:14 minutes
Owner: Hippo Video
Hey, everyone. Welcome to our Limitless podcast series. I'm Nisha a product marketer at Hippo Video and your new host. We know it's been long since our last episode, but we are back louder than ever this time. So in the true style of a grand comeback, we have with us today Richard Harris. Now I don't believe Richard really needs an introduction, but for formality's sake, Richard is the founder of the Harris Consulting Group and coaches, sales, leaders, and reps on how to sell better along the entire sales pipeline.
He has worked with clients, such as Google, Visa, Zoom, and Salesforce, and also has his own podcast series called Surfing Sales, where he helps people make it in sales by talking about his own experience as a sales professional and leader. So, Richard, welcome to Limitless, and I'm stoked to have you here.
Oh, thank you so much. That was a very nice introduction. Um, thank you. I appreciate it.
My pleasure completely, entirely my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. So let's dive right into the question. So before that, um, let me introduce the topic that we'll be covering today, which is modern-day skills that every salesperson should have for a successful career in sales.
Okay. Now onto the questions. So Richard here's your first question. How would you say the sales landscape has changed from, say, five years ago to now? What changes have you been seeing in the sales landscape?
There's a couple of 'em. So one technology continues to be, um, growing and helping, right? Whether it's Zoominfo or the Salesloft or the Hippo Video, or, you know, all those things like everything you guys do is changing and helping.
Um, it also means that the sales rep has to be a little more tech-savvy in some worlds. Um, you know, it doesn't mean that. That the veteran salesperson who's been doing it for 25 years has to change everything that they've been doing. Um, but it does mean the new people coming in need to have a better understanding.
Yes. Uh, so I think that's one piece. I also think, um, social has changed and I don't mean going out and tweeting and all that stuff. It means that every rep should have their own brand. Meaning you should be promoting yourself in different ways. You know, I focus primarily on Twitter and LinkedIn. Um, you know, some people have moved to TikTok and Instagram and all those kinds of places.
But you are your brand and it actually makes you more desirable as a candidate. For when you promote for, when you apply to roles, um, it also makes you more desirable as someone to work with when you're using that to reach out to prospects, and they do their research. Yeah. So those are, I think those are the primary ones, you know, off the top of my head.
Okay. So you should sell you also first, you know, before you sell something else or someone else, I guess it that's the ideology here.
Yeah.
Awesome. So, so your next question, a good salesperson is normally considered as someone with excellent persuasion skills, right? Like that's been the perception so far. So does that still hold true?
What excellent. What skills, I'm sorry. I misunderstood you.
Persuasion skills, you know, the ability to convince a pers with someone to, uh, you know, buy a product like being a little pushy or, you know, that sort of a thing.
Yeah. I think, I mean, Yeah, communication and personalization matter. Um, you know, the idea of a pushy salesperson can work for the person who is that way.
Okay.
And has found success. However, I don't know that it should be taught. Right. What I want. People to be pushed towards is better listening. Not better talking.
Exactly.
Okay. So I think that's a, a huge piece. Um, and you do that by earning the right to ask good questions and then asking those questions, and the pushy piece comes in the question you ask, not in what you say.
Right. So listening is more important than, you know, speaking in that case.
Oh, totally, totally. So hundred percent.
Cool. Okay. So next one. So with every industry flooded with, you know, competing products and services, you know, like most industries are saturated with products these days. So what's one thing that sales could include in their cold outreach to make the prospects, notice them like, you know, signal through the noise, cut through the noise and get right.
Yeah. So, so it depends. Right. So if you're prospecting, in some cases, you know, if they're using a competing product, if not. Then that might change it. But, the essence of that moment is to be able to say, Hey, I'm not sure what you're doing around this. However, here's why people move to us so that you can position it as a customer testimonial. I don't want you to lie about it. And you could say. And so that's the generic way. If you don't know, if you do know, right? If you do know that they're using some other data source and you're someone like Zoominfo, you could say, look, you know, our records indicate that you use this. Here's why their customers come over to us. And now you're positioning the value and difference that you make. And again, that doesn't have to be in prospect, and you could use that in a sales conversation.
So, right. So do you have a magic word or a catchphrase that, you know, people can include in their cold outreach that is bound to get their prospect's attention? Like, is there something like that, you know, like a silver bullet?
Right? Yeah. You need a powerful awareness statement, right? That's what I call. Okay. And so, and again, we also know that in cold outreach, it's multiple touches. So this is just one of the mini touches.
Right. Okay. Uh, onto the next one. So how important is virtual selling in a post pandemic world?
I mean, you know, in the pandemic world, like, there's been a lot of focus on virtual selling, but you know, with the world now coming out of the pandemic is it's still relevant. Virtual selling.
Yeah. Well guess let me ask you, I'm gonna ask you a question back. When you say virtual selling, what do you mean?
Because you're asking it from a certain context and I want to understand your context.
Correct? Like you. Usually it's people going out on the field and meeting people in person, you know, or having conferences, meetings, that's how sales usually gets done. Right. Like, I mean, that is the most, that's been the most effective way to do sales so far. Like, you know, once you get past a service meeting people in person.
Yeah. So here's the deal. Yeah. I disagree with that. I think that is what people think and have been misled to believe. Okay. Because I've been doing inside sales, whatever you want to call it since the nineties. And the reason I have is because I hated being on the road.
Now look, if you're selling, if you're working for GE and you're selling some huge industrial complex, or you work for Boeing, and you're selling an airplane engine, I get it. Like that makes sense. Right? But this whole belief of, oh, field sales, if you really went and looked at it, I've never done the data search, but. In the last 10 years, I don't see a lot of field salespeople roles. I see way more inside salespeople roles. Very true. Yep. And it's, and it's interesting because for the longest time, you know, we were considered the stepchild. We were considered the, oh, you're inside sales, and it's like, uh, we're way more profitable because someone believes that we should make less money, uh, in terms of salary. And by the way, we're more, we, we actually can get more done cause we're not driving and sitting on planes and doing other stupid stuff. So, so, so to answer your question around virtual sales, it's all I've ever done. It's all I've ever done. And every inside sales team I've managed, it's all we've ever done. So this belief system that, you know, I had this issue, like I had this, when the pandemic started of like, oh, we have an outside sales team. We need to teach. 'em how to sell internally. You know, for the life of me, I said, well, what does that mean to you? And they didn't know how to answer the question, which then means they've been let misled this false belief system. There's nothing different, right? There's nothing different around inside sales and outside sales, unless there's some sort of hands on thing. Like I said, or, or again, it's this, look, if you're gonna sell somebody a million dollars, blah, blah, blah. You know, you know, I get it. Like you need to go shake their hand and you know, you need to look 'em in the eye, and I, I get it. Yeah. The cool thing, though, is we've all survived and everybody's realizing we don't need to do that anymore. Like that, that believe that bubble has been popped. For most cases, um, the skills are the same. It's active listening. It's asking good questions. It's everything like I've, again, this whole, well, how do I act on video? It's like it doesn't, I mean, it matters, but it doesn't matter. You know, there, you know, long before Zoom, five years ago, you didn't do that. You just did it on the phone. Like stop giving me these crazy excuses. Um, And what it really is, is that what they're really asking is people aren't comfortable doing this because they've never done it before. Which is more right? Like if you told me tomorrow to go out and sell a Boeing airplane, I could ask a ton of questions, but I've never gone and had a, a million dollar quota on a single sale on the line. Like, that's just not who I am. I'd be nervous. But I think I'm given what I've done over the last many years, I'd be comfortable doing it, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't be nervous about it. There's a difference. I get it. It's not as big a difference as people think it is.
I get that, but you know, it's nice to have a face behind a face to a name, right? When you're selling something, I mean, you send cold.
It is.
And could that be a differentiating factor? Like, you know, between you and your competitor?
Yeah. But keep in mind I've been doing it this way for 20 years. Right? I have so many people I've sold, and I've met, and I've gotten to know, and I know about their family and vacations, but I never met 'em in person. I've been doing it this way for 20 years. So again, people, it doesn't mean it's a different adjustment. I get it. I get the nerves of adjusting, but this whole, well, you know, you gotta meet somebody, and it makes a stronger relationship. It's like, no, I've sold. I have sold six-figure deals without ever meeting somebody without ever seeing somebody face to face without being on to zoom. Right. But that's because that's how I grew up. Like, that's how I grew up in the sales industry. So, you know, that's so I don't, I don't see it as, as different now, someone who's spent 20 years face to face could easily come in and educate me. And I'd love that education to say, well, actually, Richard here's you don't know what you don't know. I'll admit that. I know I can come off pretty passionate. Like I know it all. But I'm also willing to learn. I'm not unwilling to hear that side and kind of go, oh, I never thought about that cause I never did it.
Okay. So you're a seasoned inside salesperson. So do you have any tips that, you know, you can give to such other inside salespeople on how to sell effectively known without meeting face to face? Like I know there's a question that usually comes with the last, but since we are on topic.
Yeah. So for me, it has to do with, um, asking, and this doesn't matter if it's face to face or inside, it's asking the right questions and asking the questions that we know we should be asking that nobody teaches us to do. So, for example, unless it's a one-call close, you know, the answer we always get at the end of a call is so what happens next? And they're like, oh, I gotta go check with my team. Okay. And we have been toxic. Well, can I talk to your team? And the answer's always no. And so the question then is to say, Great. Hey, and I might even preempt it and say, Hey, I'm willing to bet you're gonna go back and take this to your team, right. To get a decision and they're gonna go, yeah, I'm gonna go great. Who's the most skeptical person on your team and what does that person usually become skeptical about? Cause I want to give you that information now.
That's a great tactic. Fine. Yeah.
And it's because that's what we need to know. I don't need to know. Well, who's the ultimate decision maker. Who's looking assign the check. Doesn't matter. It doesn't matter till I get past the most skeptical person. Yeah. And it may be the same people, but oftentimes we don't ask that question and we're afraid to ask that question, cuz one it's different. Two nobody's ever suggested it. So anytime we try something new, we're afraid it's gonna hurt us. And then the third part is, oh my God. If I ask that question, it might blow up the deal. Well, it's like, you need to know that you need to know what's gonna blow up the deal. Not pretend like it doesn't or that it won't or hope and pray that it won't.
Yeah. So what if it's something, you know, really unexpected? Like what do you do in that case? The answer that they come up?
What do you mean by unexpected?
I mean, you know the part where you said, " Okay, I'll get back. I need to talk to my team and then, you know, get back. So like you ask them.
Right. Okay. So what's the blocker here. So what if you get a really unexpected answer, like, okay, you know, this is be short of budget or this is not what we're looking for at this time. We going with your competitor or something like that. Yeah.
There's rarely an objection that we don’t know how to answer. The competition. It's do nothing it's, uh, build versus buy it's, you weren't. I don't know. They might say, well, I don't know. Which then means you're not talking to the right person. It could be budget, which is budget is really an indication that we haven't done a good job of discovery to prove value.
Right. So again, that's what I mean, you have to be willing to ask these kinds of questions. And if someone says, well, you know, we're not sure if we have it in the budget, it's like, well, then that means I didn't do a good job in discovery to figure out, to show the value and the economic impact that my solution provides, because it's about economic impact.
It's not about ROI; nobody believes ever the R when you talk about ROI, even though they ask. They only see the, I, they never believe the R. And I don't care how good your algorithm is. It doesn't matter. That word ROI just brings up a huge wall. So it's about showing the economic impact. And explain that in a way that's different than ROI.
Got it. So, uh, coming to the topic of discovery calls, Richard, so what are some must-ask questions, you know, for salespeople to their prospects during discovery? What are they have to ask their prospects?
Yeah. So, um, generally speaking, right? Cause it's different. Yeah. Um, how are, you know, what, what, you know, in the beginning, it's like, well, what even made you want to take this call?
Like, what is it? And then digging in. Well, oh, you're interested in that. Well, can you tell me what that means at your company? Because it's different everywhere. And even if it's not, the prospect wants to be treated like they're different and that they're unique and they are because their world and their mind is different.
And then asking more questions around, Hey, you know what, it's, you know, it's almost August of 2022, just outta curiosity. You know, what made you want to talk about it now versus January of 2020?
What has changed? Okay. Yeah.
What has changed and then, you know, understanding, well, how much better is what we're showing you than what you're currently doing?
Okay. Right.
One of the, now here's a couple of questions. I would encourage people to stop asking 99% of the time.
Yeah. That is more important than the right questions to ask.
Yeah. Particularly in a demo world, which is explaining something and then saying, you know, oh, does that make sense? Hm, because we always get false positives there.
Yeah. And I think that's a compared to say yes.
Yeah. And the other, right. So the, the question then is, Hey, I wanna pause here and I wanna see what questions you might have. Hey, I wanna pause here and see, how does this compare to what you were thinking coming in? How does this compare to what you're doing? Is it better than what you're doing? Is it worse than what you're doing? How much worse is it? Cause I don't need to waste your time. How much better is it? And you can drive that into this economic impact and conversation.
So got it. Okay. Um, okay. Thanks for that, Richard. That was truly insightful now, onto the next. Um, so trust is one of the most essential factors, you know, in building prospect relationships. So what are some of the ways that, you know, salespeople can build this trust in the initial conversations?
Yeah, so I teach a thing called a respect contract where I encourage people to. Just sort of say, Hey, you know, I've got us down for 30 minutes. Does that still work? And they'll say yes. Great. And then I tell people to say, Hey, by the way, at the, in 25 minutes, I'm gonna call a timeout so we can see where we are. Oh, okay. There's nothing worse than getting to the end of the meeting and someone going, oh yeah. We're at the end of the meeting. Yeah. Email me next week. I'll give you an answer. It's like never gonna hear it. Um, And then being able to say to 'em look, you know, I think, you know, I think we're both here for the same reasons. You know, you're gonna ask me questions, I'm gonna ask you questions, and we're gonna figure out if this is a fit and if this works great, if it's not, tell me, and likewise, I'll tell you if I can't do it and I'll even point you in the right direction.
So being willing to tell them where else they should go is important in my mind. Um, and then the key piece of this is to, is to then transition out of this. Transition into, so what made you wanna take this call today? Right. Um, so this is, this is a tactic I call called the respect contract because it's not about forcing them into any kind of conversation.
It's about me respecting myself and my time and theirs and putting us both on an even playing field and allowing me to take total control without being a General without being a jerk about it. And obviously, they have time to ask me questions and take it where they want, but I'm gonna make sure I maintain control of my process. So to me, that's, that's the high level it's called a respect contract. That's that's what I teach. So, um, I'll pause there, but that's, that's the basics of it.
Okay. Got it. Right. And also, how big of a factor is personalization communication? You talked about trust. So next down to personalization, how big is that.
Will they go for personalization? Yep. Um, I think it's super, it's super important. I think it depends on your definition, right? There's persona-ization. What do we think? The basic ICP, right? Who's our ideal customer profile? What are the different personas that are involved in that decision personalization matters?
Right. Um, I think, and this, for me, this goes back to branding, right? If the data says that our customers are so far down the sales cycle before they even reach out to us, right. Well, what have we done as an organization to brand ourselves and what have I done as an, as an individual to brand. So as a salesperson, I am a free agent and I am a business person.
I am Richard Harris, LLC, not just Richard Harris salesperson for blank company. Okay. And so when I have people I talk to, you know, I send them, by the way, here's who I am. Here's the stuff I've written about. Cause I want them, it's not about me bragging it's about, I want to get to know them. I want them to get to know me.
Mm. And I think it does matter. I think, you know, telling me, you went to the university of great Maryland and I went to the University of Maryland, you know, I don't know that that's really, you know, the end all be all of the personalization for me, comes to relevance and saying, Hey for are other people in this world in your position, here are the challenges we've heard folks like you are having, I'm not sure if you're having the same, um, if they're different, let me know. So we make the most use of our time together. That's personalization.
Got it. Okay. So research is important, right? Like before you talk to anyone, you need to.
It doesn't hurt. Look by all means. Yes. I'm gonna go look at their LinkedIn profile. I'm gonna see where they went to school, and I'm gonna see if they write or comment on things on LinkedIn and like certain things. Some people do, some people don't, you know, I sell to salespeople. Right. I sell the sales leaders. So I can instantly tell if someone's, you know, social right. And their engagement. Right. I think the same thing for your sales team, right? Like you're probably selling mostly to salespeople and sales leaders. So you can see what their engagement's like. Um, plus based on what you guys do, you know, you build instant personalization, like, that's just like a piece.
Yeah. Um, and that matters. And I think personalization. I think it goes back to what you said earlier, which is personalization, isn't about the person you're talking to. It's about the communication between two people. And, you know, you, you mentioned the word trust, which I teach people, or I, I say to people is that I want our prospects and customers to fall in trust with us as salespeople.
I want 'em to fall in love with hippo video, cuz it solves a pain, but I need 'em to fall in trust with me first and that. So anyway, so that's how I look at personalization. Um, and maybe there's a different question you had behind that and, and so feel free to, to re-ask it. If I didn't answer it the, the way you were kind of think.
No, I think you've pretty much covered it, Richard. Like, this is exactly what I was looking for. The kind of personalization that we do when you advocate. So yeah. It all boils down to trust. Yeah, always. Yeah. Okay.
So the next one is, what does the future of sales and sales people look like? Like, is it, is it going to stay the same or is it going to evolve into something else?
Meaning the individual sale or the salesperson.
Sales in general, you know, like, um, with everything that's going on, going on around us, you know, we are probably at the face of a recession and everything. So yeah, I think what does the future look like? It means you're gonna need to get rid of the maybes in your pipeline.
Okay. Uh, and I mean, I've been teaching this forever, but I think particularly now, you know, nothing will exhaust the spirit and will of a salesperson than chasing maybes. Um, I have a, you know, my jokey way to say this, but I am sincere is that if you have any deal in your pipeline, that's more than two times the average sales cycle, you should just kill it.
Stop using your pipeline as a lead list. It's not, it's your pipeline. Now people get nervous cuz they're gonna be like, oh my God. Then I'm only gonna have four deals in my pipeline, and my management's gonna see it. And blah, blah, blah. Believe me, management already knows don't kid yourself. They already know you got a bunch of bullshit in your pipeline.
So clean it out. Now, part of that is it also relieves you of a lot of pressure of like, okay, these four deals are the ones I'm working. I need to go get more deals and you don't have to keep looking at the negativity in your pipeline. Right. And that's the challenge. So a lot of people don't do that. You know, they don't see it that way.
They don't like to use the technology in that way, but that's what we should do. Like that's big, it's no different now than it was before, but I think it's more important now. Because people need to know what the accuracy of the forecast is. I think forecast accuracy is going to continue to be a big piece. You know, we've seen that growth in the last five years from, from different tools out there. I think that the differentiation in how you do business is going to matter as much as what you do. You know, I say that all the time, too, like this goes back to, I need people to fall in trust with me, how I conduct myself during the conversation matters and will get me shortlisted doesn't mean I'm gonna win more, but I'm gonna get shortlisted. And then, you know, then I do end up winning more, but I need to get to the short list. First people will choose you, not just because of the solutions and the pains you solve. But also on how you conduct business, not just what you do for your, for business, but how you conduct your business. I win so many business deals that way.
Um, they're like, I just like how efficient you were. I liked how you communicated were open with dial, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, like all that stuff. So I think that's a big difference. I also think that, um, I think goals are gonna shift, like we're already seeing it, which really tells me that the goals are outta whack in the first place.
Everything's come home to roost, as we say here, you know, it's, it's like, you know, oh yeah, I guess our goals were outta whack. So, um, so anyway, so that's what I see.
So, how are the goals changing? Like, could you elaborate a bit on that? Like what were they before and what are they going to be going for?
Well, I think they need to be more realistic. I think VC needs, you know, if you're in a startup or look, The VCs want as much of their money back as fast as possible. So they push out there for these goals, what I think needs to occur, and the good companies do this is that the goals are aligned from the very top down.
Right. I can assure you that CEOs and VPs start getting paid out on their commission at 50% of goal. If the sales team isn't doing the same thing, that's unfair. That's the kinda stuff I'm talking about.
Makes a lot of sense. Okay. So, uh, Richard, like, uh, you mentioned tools and technologies, right? So what do you think are some tools and technologies that salespeople must learn to tackle, like new age sales?
I think they need to understand, you know, they need to understand data sources and how to use them. I also think companies need to know how to get the data to the rep and not expect that rep to pull the data into the CRM. I think they need to understand different tools like LinkedIn, LinkedIn. LinkedIn Voice, Hippo Video, um, you know, all the other sales enable, sales engagement platforms that exist. Um, I think they need to understand, um, you know, all of those different pieces, right? Like even Grammarly matters to me. Right. I need good grammar. Yeah. So, um, those are the basics.
Okay. Cool. So from your personal experience as a sales coach, like any final word of advice for sales professionals trying to make it in the world of sales,
Keep educating yourself, keep reading something, listening to something, whether it's a podcast or a book, or just a blog or an article, try to educate yourself at least two times a week on something.
It doesn't have to be, let's face it. We want everybody to come to listen to this podcast and do your podcast. Sometimes we don't have time for a podcast. Sometimes I just need to find an. Based on something I'm experiencing, that's one thing. Um, so I think that's the key. Just keep educating yourself as the biggest thing.
Okay. So on that, you know, podcast and book, so what are some books and podcasts that you would recommend to aspiring sales leaders?
Yeah. So for me, um, I'm obviously I'm a big fan of the Surfing Sales podcast that Scott and I'm a fan of your podcast. Um, thank you. Uh, John Barrows, I think puts out great content.
Um, I think that Morgan Ingram puts out great content. Um, you know, Keenan puts out good content. I'm cautious about what I read and listen to these. Cause I'm working on my own book, and I don't want to accidentally appropriate something from somebody else. Okay. You know what I mean? So, yeah.
Okay. So when can we expect your new book to come out? Like I think, yeah, since all of us tomorrow excited, hopefully by the end of the year, hopefully by the end of the year. Awesome. Okay. So we all have something to look forward to then. Amazing. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.
Okay. Okay, Richard. So I think, yeah, that's all for today.
I think we have reached the last of our questions, so.
Great. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much, Richard, for that incredibly well; thanks for having me. Thanks for these these are good questions. People don't always. The depth of the questions you're asking. So I really appreciate it. And I hope people who are listening got some value out of it.
Yeah. Likewise, it was great having you, and thank you listeners for tuning in today. So we'll be doing many more of these podcasts with more such stellar leaders from around the globe. So state tuned into our upcoming episodes. We are on apple, Spotify, Google, and Stitcher as well. Subscribe to get modified when a new episode is out.
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And bye-bye everybody.